Wednesday, March 18, 2009

Dear Toshido P.II: Dystopian Dreams


6 comments:

Anonymous said...

Genesis 49:14 (KJV) Issachar is a strong ass couching down between two burdens:

Just random. found that and had to post it somewhere. facebook was too risky.

-justsomename

toshido said...

Do you really feel the need to belittle me?

Is this the general way to deal with people with differing opinions from you?

We were not always like this. There was once a time we could just have long lengthy conversations and in the end agree to disagree, without belittling each other.

Now that we live much further away you resort to calling me ignorant. You repeatedly point out my lack of research, you know what, I really don't care and have much better things to do then research topics you find interesting.
Despite that I have enjoyed our debates in the past. Now I find them annoying.

Especially when you need to compare me to the village idiot (Dear toshido part I) associating me with a picture of a complete idiot. Noe you are comparing me to a brain in a jar.

Glad to see you and your followers are open to other points of view.

Well sorry boys. You punching bag is done.

you can all now sit around patting yourselfs on your back and keep telling each other how smart you are because I have had enough. This is obviously a hostile environment for differing opinions.

Have a nice life fellas.

Christopher said...

Toshido,

Dear Toshido p. 1 was an aggressive attempt to get you to engage in debate on a much more in-depth level. You didn't take, and that's fine.

Dear Toshido P.II: Dystopian Dreams was simply a bit of humour. We had all been discussing the 'brain in a vat' idea, so I made a bit of a philosophical gag out of the whole thing.

I don't apologize for playing around with you a bit. You've been able to handle much more than that in the past. And despite what you may think, I've told you quite a few times that I appreciate the differences of opinion you bring to board.

Take care.

Christopher said...

Toshido,

"Do you really feel the need to belittle me?"

No, and I haven't. I've called you out a few times, and I've taken you up on what I perceive are your misperceptions.

"Is this the general way to deal with people with differing opinions from you?"

I can't answer whether it is the way to deal with differing opinions, but I can answer that it is a way to deal with a humourous look at a topic.

If you look closely at the article, you'll see a patch called 'Labels'. After the colon, you'll see the intentions behind the article: Distractions, Funny, Humour, Whacked Out, Whimsy. Are absurd and humorous things offensive to you? Are you taking the article personally because we noted the issue of external world skepticism in Science and the Burden of Proof, and used the example of a 'brain in a vat'? There was nothing personal in that example, Toshido. And there was nothing personal about Dear Toshido P.II: Dystopian Dreams. It was simply a humourous extention of the question Edward posed, 'how do you know you're not a brain in a vat?'

Is it the fact that I found a picture that depicts Edward's question that makes it so offensive to you? Is it the fact that I directed the picture to you what makes it offensive?

In any case, it was an item of humour that I wanted to share with you. If you find that offensive, then I really can't help you with that. You'll have to sort that out on your own.

"We were not always like this. There was once a time we could just have long lengthy conversations and in the end agree to disagree, without belittling each other."

I haven't belittled you, Toshido. I've called your opinions into question, and even satirized what seems to me to be your attempt to 'judge' and 'fix' the opinions Sarah and I have. I satirized your attempts via the picture you take as depicting a village idiot. Look closely at the wrench and gavel in his hand, and re-read the article. You'll see that I've noted the correspondence between the gavel and judging, and the wrench and fixing. And the only reason I satirized your attempt was because I found it strange and interesting that you would simultaneously admit to not knowing what you're talking about and then proceed to attempt to correct Sarah and I -- and we've spent a good portion of our lives looking into the things you're attempting to correct us on while admitting that you don't know what you're saying!

I found that, well, weird. So, I put together an article as a direct challenge to you -- since you seemed eager to participate -- and had a little fun with the 'judge' and 'fix' notion that seemed to be coming from your comments.

And, yes, there was a time when we could agree to disagree. The fact that we continue to disagree should let you know that we still do agree to disagree. That hasn't changed.

You perceive my comments to you as belittling. I can't help you with that. Take them in the spirit they were meant: as a bit of a jocular challenge to debate.

"Now that we live much further away you resort to calling me ignorant."

Your comment is completely illogical. Geography has nothing to do with why I think some of your opinions are ignorant. The fact that you admit that you are ignorant, and state quite openly that I know more about this stuff than you do does give me room to tell you to do some research before you express your thoughts. That may seem harsh, and to some degree it is. However, I don't have time to educate you on this-or-that item/subject much less write for the blog, keep up with work, raise my family, and pursue my own interests, all-the-while wondering if your feelings will be hurt if I tell you to go look something up. Did you feel the same upset and offense when you were told to look up a word in the dictionary? I'm not here to spoonfeed you. So if you don't like it when I prompt you then you have other emotional issues to deal with that I won't have thrust on me.

Further to my point on geography, you should recall that Sarah and I told you face-to-face to do your research on the topic of homeschooling when we stayed with you a little over a year ago. Clearly, I don't need distance to prompt you to back up your opinions.

"you know what, I really don't care and have much better things to do then research topics you find interesting."

That's fine. I'm glad that you participate this much. I've genuinely enjoyed your participation, for the most part. But remember this: I invited you over MSN to read an article I wrote here at St. Cynic. You chose to start commenting. I didn't ask that of you, didn't think you would comment, so I was quite happy when you did. And I've looked forward to your participation ever since.

Since you don't care so much, I do wonder why you seem so emotionally charged by what's written and depicted here. If you don't care, why does it seem like you care so much? In any case, you're free to not be interested in the things I find interesting; you're also free to not research them. But if you're not going to research them, you should probably do something about making opinions on subjects you admit are a) not interesting to you, and b) unresearched.

Or, to be fair, wouldn't it seem a bit odd to you if I were to start expressing my opinions on photography and computer art? I mean, I know nothing about those fields? You catch my meaning?

"Despite that I have enjoyed our debates in the past. Now I find them annoying."

Again, those are your feelings. I can't help you with those, and I won't be accountable to them. Personally, I've enjoyed our debates for the most part.

"Especially when you need to compare me to the village idiot (Dear toshido part I) associating me with a picture of a complete idiot. Noe you are comparing me to a brain in a jar."

Wrong, and wrong. I've addressed these issues above.

"Glad to see you and your followers are open to other points of view."

We are. Are you?

"Well sorry boys. You punching bag is done."

Again, you're reflecting on your personal feelings. No-one here perceives you as a punching bag.

"you can all now sit around patting yourselfs on your back and keep telling each other how smart you are because I have had enough. This is obviously a hostile environment for differing opinions.

Have a nice life fellas."


I think you are confused. I know the people (with the exception of Edward, whom I only know by association from EBC) who write and comment on this blog. As far as I know, only Sarah and I have dealt with you at any length. And I certainly do know that neither Sarah or myself feel any pride of victory from any of our discussions with you. That's an assumption that you are placing on us; we have nothing to do with that. So, again, you'll have to deal with that on your own.

Again, take care.

Anonymous said...

Every once in a while I have this strange thought. I shared it with a colleague at work last week, and, surprising to me, he has had the same thought. The thought: When I was 12, I came very close to dying. I fell off a mountain, tumbling almost a hundred feet to land in a a grove of spruce trees. I came away with a nasty gash on one of my legs and a few bruises and minor scrapes. But, what if I didn't really "come away"? What if I am laying, broken, gasping my last breath at the base of the mountain I fell from, and all that I have perceived as "real" in the last 42 years is actually just my life flashing before my eyes. Not being a psyche major, I suppose this thought may not be unusual. However, my point is, when I saw the brain in the jar, I immediately flashed to my reoccurring strange thought. Are we all, perhaps, just brains in jars, creating vastly complex realities of our? By the way, I enjoyed the lengthy but fascinating discussion on science and the burden of proof, especially Edwards little discourse on assertion is not persuasion.
Cheers,
Wyatt

Craig said...

I have been watching my way through the tv series "six feet under" and at one point a character dies and has a vision of all the alternatives for what his life could be and he seems to just choose one and go on.

I've started to reconsider that maybe the idea of time travel and that there are multiple time lines could be possible.
What would it mean if there was an alternative time line where Adam and Eve never ate the fruit?
Deep thought.